Item description for The Great Tribulation--Past or Future?: Two Evangelicals Debate the Question by Thomas Ice & Kenneth L. Gentry Jr...
Overview Print on Demand title - minimum of 10 copies Dr. Thomas Ice and Dr. Ken Gentry engage in a friendly debate-and-response format---as they examine whether or not the events Revelation are yet to be fulfilled or were fulfilled in the first-century experience of the church.
Publishers Description This engaging book brings together the opposing viewpoints of two respected evangelicals on whether the Great Tribulation is a past, present, or future event. This material is especially helpful in gaining an understanding of end times as the arguments are presented in a friendly debate format with responses by each author to the other's position.
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Studio: Kregel Academic & Professional
Est. Packaging Dimensions: Length: 8.56" Width: 5.38" Height: 0.53" Weight: 0.57 lbs.
Release Date May 13, 1999
Publisher Kregel Academic & Professional
ISBN 0825429013 ISBN13 9780825429019
Availability 0 units.
More About Thomas Ice & Kenneth L. Gentry Jr
Thomas Ice (ThM, Dallas Theological Seminary; PhD, Tyndale Seminary) is the director of the Pre-Trib Research Center and resides in Lynchburg, Virginia.
Thomas Ice currently resides in Arlington, in the state of Texas.
Reviews - What do customers think about The Great Tribulation--Past or Future?: Two Evangelicals Debate the Question?
great debate of an important element for Christian outlook Nov 11, 2007
This book was a wonderful example of what I think we need more of, civil debate between two devout theologians over important issues from scripture bringing forth information and resources either not available or unknown to most lay believers.
Two items kept me from giving this a five star rating: editing mistakes (typos grammatical mistakes); I think the preterist POV might have been better presented with a preterist theologian who believes that the second coming took place in the first century (Dr. Gentry's interpretation of the scriptures on this point seem to be inconsistent with his interpretation of other verses within the same context).
Why Thomas Ice? Gentry superb! Jul 7, 2007
Immediately when I glanced at the two interlocutors in this debate-book, I knew it would be one sided. Thomas Ice (with all due respect) is just not up to par with Gentry's scholarship. Ice's comparison to Zechariah 14, would have to be his strongest argument in this book. There really is not much else to Ice's contribution. For Matthew 24:34, Ice simply gives alternative ways this "unambiguous, non-apocalyptic, non-poetic didactic assertion" may be interpreted but does not deal with the obvious (Gentry's) interpretation. By circumventing the semantic feildery of the phrase "this generation shall not pass away..." Ice really believes he has accomplished something. In Ice's initial argument, Matthew 24 is not even dealt with (the topic of debate). Ice, jumps to the OT (which is not wrong as a backdrop, but when the subject is the "great tribulation" you should focus on the great tribulation). Thomas Ice is a bit better, in criticizing Gentry's exposition on "The Great Tribulation" in his rebuttal; however it is not nearly strong enough to over turn Kenneth Gentry's precision. The ridiculous gap that Thomas Ice argues for between Matthew/Mark and Luke is quite pathetic. He argues that Luke's account of the Olivet discourse was fulfilled in A.D. 70 while Matthew and Mark are still future. Ice does this by appealing at a couple of differences in word usages by the three gospel accounts. It is quite sad that Thomas Ice zeros in on trivialities and deems this scholarship, there is another name for it; pedantry. Just visit your local Christian bookstore and grab a copy of any harmonious gospels, and Ice's argument immediately becomes moot! So then, my question is why was Thomas Ice chosen to represent the futurist view? There are many other notable scholars that would have made an formidable debatee for Dr. Gentry: G.K. Beale, Robert Thomas, David Turner, Robert Saucy, Richard Gaffin, Robert Strimple, etc...
Kenneth Gentry on the other hand is at his best... As usual Gentry is well presented and easily comprehended. Gentry, lays down some preliminary guidelines, before he tramples into Matthew 24. Really impressive is the historical context in which Gentry places the entire discourse. I will tell you, I have yet to see anyone as persuasive as this man in eschatology. Gentry is defiantly championed as the pinnacle of eschatological scholars. After reading this and the strength of Dr. Gentry's argument, you will be amazed and wish to further read the rest of Dr. Gentry's work. Unfortunately Dr. Gentry's rebuttal in this book is not too informative due to Thomas Ice's inadequacy to effectively present his case. Dr. Gentry is forced to way through much of the futurist jargon, that Ice disperses in his opening argument. Furthermore, Gentry is forced to begin analyzing childish objections like discontinuity between the 3 accounts of the Olivet discourse in the gospels (although Luke contains the same time delimiter "this generation" (v.32) Ice still presses this issue of a futuristic Matthew and past Luke). Gentry literally takes Thomas Ice to town on every aspect of the discourse, it was unfortunate to watch a fellow Christian take such a pounding. However Gentry does this respectfully and lovingly (see Gentry's conclusion at the end of the book). I would recommended this for every student who has developed a keen interest in eschatology; for the Futurist be upset with Thomas Ice, however listen to Kenneth Gentry.
One Sided, but for Unusual Reasons May 7, 2007
My wife (a futurist) and I (a [partial] preterist) have been reading this book together, and have found it to be only effectively presented by Gentry. My wife's own observations have been that Ice's arguments are often obscure and without a logical thread (e.g. he often begs the question about whether certain passages ought to be read as he does when presenting them to support his position). It has been disappointing for both of us. We both found Gentry's arguments to be lucid, logical, and reasonable; and we both found Ice not to be up to the task. Perhaps someone other than Ice would have been a better choice.
The strength of this book is the two opposing views, but better commentary can be found elsewhere. Nov 7, 2006
As a believer in Christ for nearly 30 years, I had read the Olivet Discourse countless times and through the guidance (or perhaps misguidance) of Hal Lindsey and several study bibles always believed that it was a future event. It wasn't until I recently read R.C. Sproul's "Last Days According to Jesus" that some scholars interpreted Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 as past, fullfilled events. Since then I read Gary DeMar's "Last Days Madness" and he too adds a lot of compelling evidence to the "partial preterist" position (meaning that much, but not all New Testament prophecy has been fullfilled).
But before solidifying my thinking as a partial preterist, I wanted to be sure I hadn't overlooked something since it is a minority position in Christian circles today and many believers are actually hostile towards this viewpoint.
In this book Dr. Kenneth Gentry takes the past position and does a great job putting the Olivet Discourse in its proper context, but his arguments regarding the tough passages (Matthew 24:29-34) are not as strong as Sproul's nor DeMar's in my opinion.
Dr. Thomas Ice, who is associated with best selling author Tim LaHaye and the Pre-Trib Research Center in Dallas presents the future position. Ice devotes quite a bit of material trying to use the Old Testament as a foundation for the future position. Finally he does address the Olivet Discourse itself and to my surprise states the following on page 96: "[The gospels of] Matthew and Mark focus exclusively upon future events of the Tribulation while Luke's version includes past and future elements". This to me was a bombshell because reading the three accounts side-by-side it's very hard to believe that these are separate accounts of different events since they do have alot more in common than not - which is also true for other accounts in the three synoptic gospels such as the cruxification and resurrection. Neither of those two events are word-for-word the same, but clearly the same event.
The coup de grace however for Ice is when he interprets the meaning of "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened" on page 103. He writes, "Our position is that this generation is not the generation to whom Christ is speaking, but the generation to the signs will become evident". The huge problem here is that the Luke account uses the same exact statement about "this generation" as do Matthew and Mark (see Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32). If the Luke account is past and future, it couldn't possibly fit Ice's definition of "this generation" unless these first century A.D. people were still alive today! I also wasn't sold on Ice's interpretation of Daniel's 70 weeks because of the major discontinuity in the time span.
Overall, I liked the book, but wasn't blown away by it. I would recommend R.C. Sproul's "Last Days According to Jesus" and Gary DeMar's "Last Days Madness" together since both complement each other's strengths and weakenesses. The two books combined will give the best insight on how to interpret the Olivet Discourse.
The Seas will turn to Blood in the last days, It is all in the Bible. Mar 17, 2006
Right now is the future, in 2006. And if one reads the Bible, it talks about a world dictator, or president that will control all the planet in the last days. Yes, we are living in the pre tribulation period. People can laugh at this but the issue of verichip(the mark of the beast-the satanic mark) is gaining strength, the European union is gaining strength as well, homosexuality is on the rise, aids is too on the rise...the only thing that needs to occur is the rapture and then the 7 year tribulation will begin. Once the rapture happens then the antichrist will appear onto the world scene. It will be peaceful at first but then half way through the pact it will all crumble, and wars shall start (Holy Bible and TBN Evangelism). I don't know if it will be in the very last years of so, but the oceans will turn into blood. Now, everything is in the Bible. We have to believe In Jesus Christ, because He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Believe and follow the commandments of Christ and be immortal, forever. Be aware and stay awake, and follow Christ and you yourself who is reading this will be picked up in Rapture. Pray alot, and pray with heart in order to be filled with the Holy Spirit, and then you shall know the truth. There is no such thing as a debate because everything is in the Bible. I recommend to you the Holy Bible 2001 ESV By Crossway publishers, know the word and don't be controlled by anyone, including preachers. Just follow Christ. Jesus Christ is God. Regardless of image, social status, and race, but many will go to hell because they rejected Jesus Christ. *Check this out, kirk cameron, the actor, was a non believer-an atheist, now he is a christian. If this last sentence persuades you to become a christian do so, Christ does not want anyone to go to Hell, but it is yourself who decides that along with other factors(the world and satan). So follow the Christian light and obtain Eternal salvation.